HLTV to eliminate required demo's to ban people

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Rivelli
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HLTV to eliminate required demo's to ban people

Post by Rivelli » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:15 pm

Sometimes, I'll call someone out as being a hacker and I'm lucky enough that an admin is there at the time. Today, I witnessed extremely blatant hacking, but no admin was around. I didn't record a demo so the guy gets a pass.

Not only doing a demo every time I spot a hacker is too much work for me, but also my non-gaming laptop can't handle the added resources.

An HLTV that records demo's would allow anyone to simply call someone out, and the admin can then look to confirm.

It could be called Big Brother, or whatever. Think of it as a security camera. They have security cameras in stores. It shouldn't be the case that the police just happen to be in the right place at the right time.

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Venom
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Re: HLTV to eliminate required demo's to ban people

Post by Venom » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:28 pm

I believe HLTV is for spectating isn't in? And once in you could start recording a demo. it doesn't record every second being played in a server. If it did, it wouldn't record in first view of each and every player playing.

We need the demo in first view of the person being accused.

I've been here almost a decade and 40 cal itself has been around longer than that. The demo system has always worked.


We only ban hackers with a demo. Non disputable evidence is always the last word.

Not only doing a demo every time I spot a hacker is too much work for me, but also my non-gaming laptop can't handle the added resources.
It's what admins do. It's required and expected. :roll:
-[.40 cal ]- tomwzhere ***: lol imma be webcamming with charlie so he will see if i put it right
Ven: sounds sexual :roll:



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Rivelli
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Re: HLTV to eliminate required demo's to ban people

Post by Rivelli » Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:03 pm

I sort of expected this response. I hate calculation, but I love mathematics. It sounds like a contradiction to many, but most of the mathematicians I know agree with me in that they would much rather find a clever way of solving the problem rather than doing it the long way. If I think innovation is possible, I try to go that route first. I think making the world a better place, or server, is more patriotic (admin :P) than keeping status quo. I'd do the hard work, assuming my laptop can take it, if there was no clever solution, but I still think there is.

I believe HLTV can be customized to have first person, for everyone. If Quakeworld servers can do it, I'm fairly certain that HLTV can do it. It can also be customized to re-record over the last day, week, or whatever, given disk space issues.

Lastly, it would have been indisputable, if the qualified person saw it:

Thought experiment: Suppose I had the required demo, the right people saw it, and banned the steamid. Over time, the demo was lost. Would he be unbanned? I suspect the memory of the qualified people would be enough to justify not unbanning the steamid. Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the steamid would be unbanned.

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Venom
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Re: HLTV to eliminate required demo's to ban people

Post by Venom » Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:23 pm

No

Once banned with demo evidence ... the ID stays banned.

It's not the long way of doing it ... It's just how we do it.

We run a lot of mods. Having HLTV record every second of every player, storing the data on our dedicated box running multiple servers could be a nightmare for performance.

I'm not debating with you. But it's how we do things. It may make things easier for you, but causes more work for someone else. If it's too much work for you. Maybe consider just being a regular.

Recording, Watching and Reviewing demos is part of the growing process here.

Our admins pride themselves on hard work and dedication. Sounds like you just want to play. You don't want to "admin" the server. You want to tell someone else the time they should go back thru the recorded data. And it's ok. Not everyone has the will and patience to be and admin.


Positive suggestion but a word of advice. You are beating a dead horse on this one.

If our lower ranked admins never have to record a demo, I wouldn't know if they can actually spot a hacker. Which eventually leads to no promotions in rank.
-[.40 cal ]- tomwzhere ***: lol imma be webcamming with charlie so he will see if i put it right
Ven: sounds sexual :roll:



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Rivelli
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Re: HLTV to eliminate required demo's to ban people

Post by Rivelli » Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:06 am

I'm sorry if I offend, but disagreement and innovation healthy.

The current way is certainly the long way compared to the possible, workable solution I propose, given only regs and admins know the protocol to ban. Most don't have a voice in this scenario. Most just leave and the brand is tarnished. I'm a programmer, so I would been happy to make everything work, including a way for anyone in the server, at anytime, to call someone out, while notifying admins. I was trying to think of a solution for everyone. It would make things easier for everyone else, including you and I. I don't see how it adds work to others. I would gladly implement said innovation, the same group gets the demos...The only more work thing that I see would possibly just be more demos to watch, and again, I would gladly watch. Or perhaps you have a sort of it's not a bug, it's a feature mentality. Less demo's means less work. That may be a valid point; it is possible that there could be a spam issue. But there is a workaround for that as well. I can setup a triage where more trustworthy players have their demos go to the front of the line; newbs / bads will quickly loose their vote, at least for a while.

I observed a single, questionable guy today, besides that guy I posted about, for 20 minutes. I don't mind doing that sort of thing, just as I don't mind implementing a possibly better program.
Our admins pride themselves on hard work and dedication. Sounds like you just want to play. You don't want to "admin" the server. You want to tell someone else the time they should go back thru the recorded data. And it's ok. Not everyone has the will and patience to be and admin.
That couldn't be more false. First of all, I _want_ to admin the server rather than tell someone else to watch it. But the current protocol is such that I must give a demo to someone else to watch through the recorded data. Fine, I get it, not everyone has the experience to tell properly. But why not give the innovative solution a chance because you think it might be bad for performance, among other things? Second, programming and configuring said idea isn't easy. I'd assert it's much harder than recording and posting a demo. If anything, I'm trying to work harder, to take one for the team and the server family, in the short term, to make things easier, for everyone, in the long run. And, indeed, I would take pride in that.

Rather than beating a dead horse, I think you should have a more open mind. The current way, isn't necessarily the best way. I don't even know if my way is better. I just think we should try. If you guys don't want to, I'm cool with that. I'll try to optimize my laptop to do the demo thing...

apples
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Re: HLTV to eliminate required demo's to ban people

Post by apples » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:04 pm

Venom wrote: We run a lot of mods. Having HLTV record every second of every player, storing the data on our dedicated box running multiple servers could be a nightmare for performance.
this is true, there is already lag on the servers and installing HLTV will make it worse

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MeRcyKiLler
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Re: HLTV to eliminate required demo's to ban people

Post by MeRcyKiLler » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:35 pm

So all in all, he's asking sammy to pay for a new system, stronger servers, for the higher ups to spend even MORE time searching through footage, just so the lower ranked admins and others can catch a break from recording demos and such? I know when you look at it from only the perspective of someone who doesnt actually have to do the banning and stuff, it seems like less work, but its really not. It's the same amount transferred to the people that already have the highest work loads in our clan.
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*dies 3 times to same person*

We aren't friends anymore -_-

Rivelli
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Re: HLTV to eliminate required demo's to ban people

Post by Rivelli » Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:17 pm

I'm thinking people don't really understand my proposal. It would be less time with more automation.

I would essentially automate pretty much the exact same thing that is currently being done manually.

BTW- MeRcyKiLler, did you, or any admin view my hacker demo yet? No? It has been most of the day for me. There must be a better way. You have been in the clan less than a month. Rather than putting words in my mouth, wouldn't you better serve your clan by viewing my demo? My automation can easily share the demo with the lower ranks first, and, if it passes, the higher ups get it.

I didn't ask for anyone to pay anything. I also disagree about the performance issue. I'll loose on the performance point most likely because both sides are playing the experience card (I also have much experience), but I can't prove the other side wrong, so tie goes to the status quo.

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Venom
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Re: HLTV to eliminate required demo's to ban people

Post by Venom » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:19 pm

It's not the long way of doing it ... It's just how we do it.
-[.40 cal ]- tomwzhere ***: lol imma be webcamming with charlie so he will see if i put it right
Ven: sounds sexual :roll:



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